S2 E49. Episode Transcript - Understanding the Legitimacy and Defense of Israel: Part I of a Conversation with UK Barrister Natasha Hausdorff

a)  Introduction

Narration: I have now had the privilege of interviewing Natasha Hausdorff several times since December 2023. That month, and in mid-July, it was just the two of us in conversation.

When she was in Israel a few months ago on a whirlwind working trip, she was also a guest on the Jewish News Syndicate YouTube show, The Quad, which I co-host with three other women. Check it out. We're a lively bunch, and we riff weekly on the hot issues of the day in Israel and the Jewish world. You'll find the link in the podcast notes.

But back to Natasha Hausdorff. Who is she? A British barrister who specializes in the international law of conflict, human rights, and related areas. She took her law degree at Oxford University. And followed that with a master's. She then clerked with the Israeli Supreme Court. And there's so much more. Please check the program notes for her detailed CV.

Natasha is a powerhouse whose profile has grown significantly since October 7th. Not only is she a fearless advocate for standards of fairness, decency, and integrity in international law: She accomplishes the task with the most formidable adversaries, publicly and globally. And with such elegance.

Suddenly, she is everywhere; on the speaking circuit, debates, writing, all while managing a very demanding law practice and serving as the legal director of the UK Lawyers for Israel Charitable Trust. We've put a link to the organization in the notes, as well as information regarding an upcoming webinar being hosted by Natasha with a colleague. You won't want to miss it. In mid-June, Natasha paired up with superstar public intellectual and journalist Douglas Murray in a live debate in which they represented the position that “Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism.”

Opposing them were Mehdi Hassan, formerly of MSNBC, and the author, ironically, of a recent book titled, Win Every Argument: The Art of Debating, Persuading, and Public Speaking. Arguing with Mehdi was Gideon Levy of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. The forum was The Munk Debate, a forum established 15 years ago in Toronto by my good friend Rudyard Griffiths, which he has nurtured into an internationally renowned platform for high-level debate on issues of global interest and import.

At one point in the debate, Hausdorff oh-so-coolly eviscerates Medhi Hassan's flippant and disingenuous characterization of the 1917 Balfour Declaration to support his view that the State of Israel is nothing more than a rapacious adventure in colonialist oppression at the behest of the British.

Hausdorff pulverizes him, verbally, which may well have been the deciding moment of the debate. According to the audience vote, she and Murray not only won, but also moved audience members who had been opposed at the start of the evening to support their position by the end.

In Part I of this special two-part series, we focus on the debate and the general climate of extreme hostility towards Israel and Jewish people globally. But we do so in the context of how international law and institutions are hijacked by various interests, like the so-called progressive left, to distort history, fact, and culture, and malevolently misrepresent Israel as being the most malign international actor, by every measure. The extreme tone and hysteria should give any sober, rational person pause.

But, as we are seeing now, day in, day out, that too often, it does not. Natasha Hausdorff takes on this battle every single day, with a sharp intellect, that magnificent English accent, and superb advocacy skills. She is a tremendous asset, not just to Israel and Jewish life, but more so to the continued vibrancy of liberal, tolerant democracy.

This instability and bizarre world in which we suddenly find ourselves is an assault on Western liberal values. And it is people like Natasha Hausdorff who are on the front line of defending our way of life. In this episode, we will discuss which was recorded in July, we discuss the debate. And from there pivot into some key substantive issues that this moment in history raises:

First and foremost, we discuss the legitimacy of the State of Israel under international law. Yes, it is that basic. As occurred in The Munk Debate, big name pundits often default to smearing Israel with all manner of grotesque labels, including "occupier" and "genocidal nation." We get into the guts of these blood libels.

And lastly, we delve into the doctrine/law of proportionality, which has been abused to smear Israel with the most heinous allegations. As you will hear, Natasha Hausdorff explains what may be unfamiliar concepts to many with clarity and deep knowledge. My hope and expectation is that her comments help to fortify all you listeners out there to address such matters from a more informed place.

I certainly learned a tremendous amount from our encounters. Part II of this special series will drop on Monday, and will focus on various international NGOs, non-governmental organizations, and how they have engaged with Israel, particularly since October 7th. In our sights are The International Committee of the Red Cross, The United Nations, with a focus on Secretary General, Antony Guterres, as well as various UN Women's Organizations. And, we examine the status of hospitals in international law in a time of war.

What does the law have to say if a hospital is being used to facilitate military operations? Of course, we touch on the misreporting by mainstream media with Natasha focusing her comments on what once was the global beacon of professionalism in journalism, the BBC. But for that, you're going to have to tune in on Monday.

In the coming weeks, we will be bringing you additional podcasts that continue to hone in on key macro issues relating to war. We'll be speaking with urban warfare expert, John Spencer, and the indefatigable thorn in the side of the UN Human Rights Commission - and then some – UN Watch President, Hillel Neuer.

I'm Vivian Bercovici, former Canadian Ambassador to Israel, and now tucked away on a beautiful kibbutz in southern Israel, but always, always with a State of Tel Aviv state of mind. Stay with us.